Hello again to all my Land F/X Power Users! I once again need your feedback on an important development project that we’re working on, and have a prototype for you to test with the latest update, which will change an important feature in our Land F/X AutoCAD plugin: Railings and Linetypes!
You can try it out now with the command RAILING2.
Like last time, I’ll list out all the pros and cons of our thinking on this to help explain why we want to change this, and then it’s your opportunity to post here or open a ticket to tell me if you agree, disagree, and why. Also feel free to use this post to tell me what you always wished the linetype and railing tool could do.
Pros and cons of removing block type railings - making them mostly linetypes instead (walls will still need to be blocks). For reference, this is our documentation page for how the railing tool behaves now: Railing
What Would Change?
Old Dialog:
New Dialog:
Pros to Removing
Cons of Removing
This update is already in the current release. Again, you can try it out now with the command RAILING2.
We’re bringing this to you now since we’ve finished our prototype phase and confirmed that we can achieve the look that a lot of users have been asking us for in tickets with these linetype prototypes.
We plan to connect this officially to the railing button in the ribbon and to the RefNote symbol selection in a month. Legacy RefNote railing entries should still work fine with schedules but can be easily updated to a new assigned "symbol" from the railing tool.
Also I would love to have anybody share a legend or DWG with any typical linetypes that you use in your documents that we should consider adding as a default linetype in our newly expanding library.
You can try it out now with the command RAILING2.
Like last time, I’ll list out all the pros and cons of our thinking on this to help explain why we want to change this, and then it’s your opportunity to post here or open a ticket to tell me if you agree, disagree, and why. Also feel free to use this post to tell me what you always wished the linetype and railing tool could do.
Pros and cons of removing block type railings - making them mostly linetypes instead (walls will still need to be blocks). For reference, this is our documentation page for how the railing tool behaves now: Railing
What Would Change?
- New linetype builder that merges our old linetype and railing tools into one tool and opens the door for many more post and linetype options.
- Using shx (shape) files for posts instead of blocks, so they can be used in complex linetypes.
- Linking linetype selection to RefNote Lengths.
- Walls will now use a new explode option in the Edit Object tool in order to adjust the layout of the line, as they will still use blocks.
-The new linetype builder will allow 1, 2, or 3 polylines. If 2 or 3, they will be blocked, requiring Edit Object to edit.
-We tested using multiline and there just wasn’t a way for us to automatically create good-looking wall and fence display outputs. There’s limitations where we can’t make an interior linetype with only shapes and spaces. It must include line segments in the linetype. Linetypes in AutoCAD also can’t only be shapes.
-This explode function would be like FXPLODE, which was needed to edit all railings before, but now will only be needed for walls and will be much easier and intuitive to use. We found many new users didn't easily make the connection to use a tool called FXPLODE to edit a line.
Old Dialog:
New Dialog:
Pros to Removing
- While being very accurate with a not-to-exceed distance between posts (90%-100% of input post spacing, it did not account for slopes.
-This is a bit misleading as appearing to show exactly where posts should place, but in reality the site conditions might change the final placement and is better handled by the fence/railing detail or specification. - Many people just wanted a linetype in AutoCAD, and gave feedback that the railing tool with a block was too complex, and too limiting.
- For most railings, you won’t need to use the railing tool again to revert back to a polyline and move the vertices a railing line. With a linetype, you can just click the polyline vertices.
-Way more intuitive for those just familiar with AutoCAD and maybe new to Land F/X. - Much easier for us to add a lot more post and line graphic options with linetypes.
-We’re planning a quick linetype creator platform, where you pick the primary linetype and you pick the post, and we put them together on the fly. - Opens the door for us to make this easier to coordinate with SketchUp, Revit and Rhino.
- We will now be able to add choosing the linetype directly to the RefNote Length edit info window!
-Determining real post locations is best handled where clash detections can also occur, like in Revit, or in a 3D platform like SketchUp or Rhino3D.
-So, for the linetype railings and wall blocked lines, the post spacing will continue to be a graphical representation like it was before, but now more obviously so since the posts will not alway align to the endpoints of each segment in the selected polyline.
-Ex. Dashed line, hollow triangle post at 6ft/2m spacing, we create that linetype for you.
Cons of Removing
- Posts won’t always be on the vertices of the polyline
- Starting to use more shx files in linetypes. We already use these with plant shrub area linetypes.
-Although SHX files can already be included in etransmit.
This update is already in the current release. Again, you can try it out now with the command RAILING2.
We’re bringing this to you now since we’ve finished our prototype phase and confirmed that we can achieve the look that a lot of users have been asking us for in tickets with these linetype prototypes.
We plan to connect this officially to the railing button in the ribbon and to the RefNote symbol selection in a month. Legacy RefNote railing entries should still work fine with schedules but can be easily updated to a new assigned "symbol" from the railing tool.
Also I would love to have anybody share a legend or DWG with any typical linetypes that you use in your documents that we should consider adding as a default linetype in our newly expanding library.
Amanda Marin
set the type of the post as
Task — 4 months ago
Amanda Marin
featured this post — 4 months ago
More preview images!
Symbol selection in the RefNote Lengths dialog:
Examples of old railing tool results (top) and new railing results (bottom) on circles.
Symbol selection in the RefNote Lengths dialog:
Examples of old railing tool results (top) and new railing results (bottom) on circles.
Last previews:
Examples of old railing tool results (top) and new railing results (bottom) on squares.
All the extra new linetypes, and more can now be added.
Examples of old railing tool results (top) and new railing results (bottom) on squares.
All the extra new linetypes, and more can now be added.
This is a great improvement and I look forward to utilizing this tool more often. Some thoughts below...
- The RAILING2 tool seems to scale the dashed linetypes within railings based on the segment length. The existing RAILING tool kept the dashed linetype scale the same regardless of the segment length. Can the dashed linetype scale remain the same regardless of segment length similar to the existing tool?
- The current and new RAILING2 wall creation tool uses a different fill (global width line color) for dashed and solid wall types. Is it possible to unitilize the 253 color for dashed as well? Or have the option to select. It is easy to edit the block after pacing but I think it would be great to have this option when in the railing menu. Added bonus if the dashed global width line scale could be edited in the railing menu for desired dash density.
- I have often thought it would be useful if ther was an option to cap the end of walls with a solid line. Currently there is a line offset from center of the original polyline that does not wrap the end of the wall block that is created. Similar to how the railing tool creates a rounded end is there a way to allow for end linework to walls? This issue exists with both the existing and RAILNG2 tool.
- For single line linetypes is it possible to include a simple dashed option without added geometry?
Austin,
Thank you for the input!
1. Dash lengths - we are constrained by the limits of what a linetype file is capable of, which is 10 total elements. With the three dashes between posts, that takes 8 of the 10 elements. At most, we could add a 4th dash, but that would be it.
2. Fill for dashed wall - This is certainly possible, we will look into this. The dash length is currently hard-coded, that also is something that we could add as well. We'll see what can be done with this.
3. End caps for the wall - This too is certainly possible, just a matter of if it's worth the overhead for this minor aesthetic look.
4. For a simple dashed line with no additional geometry, the standard CAD linetypes should have this amply covered, yes?
--J
Thank you for the input!
1. Dash lengths - we are constrained by the limits of what a linetype file is capable of, which is 10 total elements. With the three dashes between posts, that takes 8 of the 10 elements. At most, we could add a 4th dash, but that would be it.
2. Fill for dashed wall - This is certainly possible, we will look into this. The dash length is currently hard-coded, that also is something that we could add as well. We'll see what can be done with this.
3. End caps for the wall - This too is certainly possible, just a matter of if it's worth the overhead for this minor aesthetic look.
4. For a simple dashed line with no additional geometry, the standard CAD linetypes should have this amply covered, yes?
--J
Hi Amanda,
I would love an upgrade to the railing tool, this looks good in principal.
Sadly I wasn't able to get far testing Railing2 as it appears to doesn't scale correctly with metric units. 100mm posts are coming out 1mm (in a 1:100 work area).
This was a big issue with the old Railing tool. If we wanted to show fence elements at a true scale, then we just draw them manually.
thanks
I would love an upgrade to the railing tool, this looks good in principal.
Sadly I wasn't able to get far testing Railing2 as it appears to doesn't scale correctly with metric units. 100mm posts are coming out 1mm (in a 1:100 work area).
This was a big issue with the old Railing tool. If we wanted to show fence elements at a true scale, then we just draw them manually.
thanks
Emile,
There does appear to be a scaling issue within a metric work area. But the tool works fine in a millimeter plan outside of a work area. We should be able to get the work area scaling bug fixed in time for tomorrow's update.
--J
-----[EDIT]-----------------
False alarm, scaling is working fine even in a work area. Note the tool does rely on LTSCALE. So a railing object within a work area does require ltscale to be set for the work area. This is no different than any other linetype within the work area.
There does appear to be a scaling issue within a metric work area. But the tool works fine in a millimeter plan outside of a work area. We should be able to get the work area scaling bug fixed in time for tomorrow's update.
--J
-----[EDIT]-----------------
False alarm, scaling is working fine even in a work area. Note the tool does rely on LTSCALE. So a railing object within a work area does require ltscale to be set for the work area. This is no different than any other linetype within the work area.
Very happy to have found this.
I wasn't happy with how the railing tool was making my handrails and guard rails. I was going down the rabbit hole of creating custom linetypes with shapes and I found FX cad didnt have the mkshape command. I searched the support database for that and voila, ended up here and the Railing2 command is working better for me.
One thing I wonder if possible - can you make it so that the railing tool using Square/circle posts would generate the line so it always has a post on either end of the line.
I am also wondering if you could add a jagged line type to the perimeter of the walls. I like to show my rock walls this way - Though the fill seems to not stay within the shape of the line, and rather where it would be if it was continuous.
In any case I am glad I found this thread today
I wasn't happy with how the railing tool was making my handrails and guard rails. I was going down the rabbit hole of creating custom linetypes with shapes and I found FX cad didnt have the mkshape command. I searched the support database for that and voila, ended up here and the Railing2 command is working better for me.
One thing I wonder if possible - can you make it so that the railing tool using Square/circle posts would generate the line so it always has a post on either end of the line.
I am also wondering if you could add a jagged line type to the perimeter of the walls. I like to show my rock walls this way - Though the fill seems to not stay within the shape of the line, and rather where it would be if it was continuous.
In any case I am glad I found this thread today
Tom, with the linetype, it specifically can't have posts at the ends of line segments. That is the nature of a linetype in AutoCAD.
For the rock wall, yes, hatch fills and polyline with widths both do not respect linetype shapes in AutoCAD as well.
So these are two things this particular feature won't be able to do.
We can look into adding your rock wall linetype as an option if you're ok with that overlapping look.
For the rock wall, yes, hatch fills and polyline with widths both do not respect linetype shapes in AutoCAD as well.
So these are two things this particular feature won't be able to do.
We can look into adding your rock wall linetype as an option if you're ok with that overlapping look.
Tom, with the linetype, it specifically can't have posts at the ends of line segments. That is the nature of a linetype in AutoCAD.
For the rock wall, yes, hatch fills and polyline with widths both do not respect linetype shapes in AutoCAD as well.
So these are two things this particular feature won't be able to do.
We can look into adding your rock wall linetype as an option if you're ok with that overlapping look.
Thanks for the reply Amanda - Makes sense if that is a constraint inherent to autocad. In terms of the rock wall - I would be fine with the overlapping. Most of the time when plotting at scale its not really visible.
Thanks everybody for your feedback on this. We're planning on transitioning this new railing tool to be the main railing tool and removing the need for the RAILING2 command in the next update, scheduled for the week of July 20 (next week).
A lot of this input made it's way into the tool already, so again, a HUGE thank you to everybody here, and those who submitted tickets directly while testing it. You all always remind us how awesome it is that we get to work with such talented and collaborative clients!
-Amanda
A lot of this input made it's way into the tool already, so again, a HUGE thank you to everybody here, and those who submitted tickets directly while testing it. You all always remind us how awesome it is that we get to work with such talented and collaborative clients!
-Amanda
Amanda Marin
unfeatured this post — 2 months ago
Is there a way to use the old railing tool? We like the old railing tool for its ability to place post at the corners of fence runs and evenly space posts between the ends. This new tool ruins how we graphically represent fences in enlargement plans and renderings. We now have to manually place blocks to represent posts where this was automated previously.
Franco,
Well this is why we created this post two months ago, to gauge that necessity. This is now the first we are hearing that this change "ruins" the feature. I think we'll need to see an example plan to get a feel for this, to see what can be done. If you could please send in an example plan, we will take a look.
--J
Well this is why we created this post two months ago, to gauge that necessity. This is now the first we are hearing that this change "ruins" the feature. I think we'll need to see an example plan to get a feel for this, to see what can be done. If you could please send in an example plan, we will take a look.
--J
Jeremah,
Well not the first time I've been late to a party!
I'll send you an example plan.
-f
Well not the first time I've been late to a party!
I'll send you an example plan. -f
My apologies for the late response, but today was the first time I was working on a plan that required a fence since the update to the tool. As I am very pleased with some of the new features, however, I am in agreement with some of the previous responses about the drawbacks. Specifically, how and where posts are placed. This limits me to creating accurate fence layouts to hand off to the company bidding and installing the fence. It also gives an unrealistic representation of how the fence will run when presenting designs to clients. I can only image the questions I would get. They may even question my drafting abilities. I remain hopeful that a suitable compromise and fix will be made. In the case that my hopes are dashed, I will have to take the long road and draw each segment and post individually. Thanks for hearing me out, although it may sound like a complaint. Cheers!
Aaron B.
Aaron B.
Aaron,
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, as we outlined above, the new style has a large number of improvements, with one and only one trade-off, the lack of post placements at vertices. Of note in our decision process, was the simple fact that even a slight elevation change renders the post placement inaccurate. So we are gravitating to Revit and SketchUp for an ability to show accurate post placement even along slopes, leaving CAD for a more diagrammatic representation.
But by the sound of it, there were far more users than we estimated that were relying on this feature for accurate post placement.
Likely, we will end up spinning off the legacy railing tool as a separate download, which is something we are actively discussing.
--J
Thanks for the feedback.
Yes, as we outlined above, the new style has a large number of improvements, with one and only one trade-off, the lack of post placements at vertices. Of note in our decision process, was the simple fact that even a slight elevation change renders the post placement inaccurate. So we are gravitating to Revit and SketchUp for an ability to show accurate post placement even along slopes, leaving CAD for a more diagrammatic representation.
But by the sound of it, there were far more users than we estimated that were relying on this feature for accurate post placement.
Likely, we will end up spinning off the legacy railing tool as a separate download, which is something we are actively discussing.
--J
Jeremiah -
I would argue that Land FX if fundamentally a 2D design tool for AutoCAD, with some useful features for sketchup and revit developed along the way, not the other way around. This change fundamentally breaks a tool for 2D AutoCAD. It's not just posts at corners. It's also our gaps in fencing for gates looking weird/sloppy in 2D.
It would be my preference to have the old 2D tool that has worked as expected for years restored and make the new tool as a download or available under one of the sketchup tools in the ribbon. Call it "3D railings" or something?
I would argue that Land FX if fundamentally a 2D design tool for AutoCAD, with some useful features for sketchup and revit developed along the way, not the other way around. This change fundamentally breaks a tool for 2D AutoCAD. It's not just posts at corners. It's also our gaps in fencing for gates looking weird/sloppy in 2D.
It would be my preference to have the old 2D tool that has worked as expected for years restored and make the new tool as a download or available under one of the sketchup tools in the ribbon. Call it "3D railings" or something?
Hi all, I made the following diagram (see attached) to help represent the current documentation conflicts we’ve identified with this new version of the tool. This was also submitted under ticket # 2695241 but figured since there was a whole conversation taking place here it may be of use.
Our main concern with this update is that there is a fundamental change in the documentation methodology that has taken place. Whereas the previous system allowed for specified post placement (although we fully recognize that elevation factor is not truly accounted for) the new system is diagrammatic in nature. This has already been pointed out in previous comments however, what has not been pointed out is that for ongoing projects where the documentation was previously specific, users are now forced mid project to switch to a diagrammatic methodology. When revisions take place, this will cause confusion in the field.
From a more holistic viewpoint our company’s stance is that we would prefer to maintain the capability of specifying/prescribing post placement via the usage of the previous block tool. That said, if LFX is simply moving towards a diagrammatic documentation methodology please let us know as it will require us to change our own internal documentation processes.
Our main concern with this update is that there is a fundamental change in the documentation methodology that has taken place. Whereas the previous system allowed for specified post placement (although we fully recognize that elevation factor is not truly accounted for) the new system is diagrammatic in nature. This has already been pointed out in previous comments however, what has not been pointed out is that for ongoing projects where the documentation was previously specific, users are now forced mid project to switch to a diagrammatic methodology. When revisions take place, this will cause confusion in the field.
From a more holistic viewpoint our company’s stance is that we would prefer to maintain the capability of specifying/prescribing post placement via the usage of the previous block tool. That said, if LFX is simply moving towards a diagrammatic documentation methodology please let us know as it will require us to change our own internal documentation processes.
For those looking for the legacy railing tool with posts on the corners, here's the separate install with it.
Extract all files directly into the LANDFX folder and use the menuload command, and load "RAILWALLFENCE".
This will add a "Railing" ribbon tab with the RailWallFence tool.
Then run in the commandline: (Load “railwallfence.vlx”)
Use regular quotes in that, not smart quotes.
-Amanda
Extract all files directly into the LANDFX folder and use the menuload command, and load "RAILWALLFENCE".
This will add a "Railing" ribbon tab with the RailWallFence tool.
Then run in the commandline: (Load “railwallfence.vlx”)
Use regular quotes in that, not smart quotes.
-Amanda
I updated LFX to version 22.65 prior to starting the process and can't get it to work. I extracted the zip file directly into my LFX folder and have run the menuload portion and see the railing tool in the ribbon, but when I then type (Load raillwallfence.vlx") in the command line, I keep getting the error below.
Command: (Load "railwallfence.vlx")
; error: LOAD failed: "railwallfence.vlx"
Any suggestions to get this to work?
Command: (Load "railwallfence.vlx")
; error: LOAD failed: "railwallfence.vlx"
Any suggestions to get this to work?
I used APPLOAD and loaded railwallfence.VLX from that dialog box. I also added it to my startup suite.
Amanda Marin & Jeremiah Farmer
Thanks for releasing the legacy tool.
Amanda Marin & Jeremiah Farmer
Thanks for releasing the legacy tool.
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