We are struggling with drip irrigation design with the Land FX tools. Comparing with our own standards, it makes the most sense for us to use Areas for Drip Emitters. The issue that I have lies with how emitters are assigned, and as a result, how flow is determined.
- Area for drip emitter assigns different emitters, and number of emitters based on container size, which is inflexible for flow calculations
- I understand that Trees can be excluded from calculations for emitter areas. This is handy as it is often required from a maintenance perspective for trees, and shrubs to be on separate lines.
- We work with plants which have drastically different watering needs, but are still sized the same:
- 5 gal. Container Ferocactus wislizxenii (fishhook barrel cactus) needs 0.5 gph
- 5 gal. Container Vauquelinia californica (Arizona rosewood) needs 4.0 gph
- A work around I considered for this was to produce multiple types of areas for emitters
- We already group plantings in to "Hydrozones" so that similar water-use plants are grouped together
- By creating multiple types of areas for emitters, we can differentiate between high-water, and low-water use areas, inside of the existing container size framework
- This is currently not possible, as we are only able to create one type of area for emitters
- Another alternative would be to attach emitter information to plants, rather than to container size
- We already have to produce emitter schedules, specifying intended flow and the number of outlets per plant
- This seems like a simpler and more accurate means of calculating flow for shrub area
- It is also unclear to me if it is possible to specify multi-port emitters, which are shared by separate shrubs. (i.e. a shrub requires 2 outlets, and the emitter has 6 outlets; in the field a contractor would install a single emitter for shrubs spaced close enough together)
Andre,
The reason why we assign emitters per container size, is twofold -- first, it allows the irrigation plan to be able to be produced without the entire plant list, but more importantly to vastly simplify the process. Having both the drip emitter assignment dialog, as well as the irrigation schedule, have to list the entire plant list, would be incredibly cumbersome.
Regarding multi-port emitters -- when used in an Area for Drip Emitters, you can see that the emitter assignment is for individual emitters, not for entire multi-port units. So the total number of emitters would then need to be divided by 6 by the contractor to determine the approximate number of units to install.
The short answer for the simplest solution -- we absolutely have plans to allow more than one Drip Emitter Area in a project. This is pending very soon, and I think this will address the crux of your issues.
But still, we'd love to see an example plan of how you are used to doing drip plans. I would imagine it has the entire plant list on it, with a column for the number of emitters necessary. If so, this is also something we have been considering supporting -- that if the user has a Planting User Field configured as number of emitters, then we could allow the drip emitter assignment to access that plant list, and assume that the irrigation plan will also have the entire plant list on it somewhere.
--J
Andre,
The reason why we assign emitters per container size, is twofold -- first, it allows the irrigation plan to be able to be produced without the entire plant list, but more importantly to vastly simplify the process. Having both the drip emitter assignment dialog, as well as the irrigation schedule, have to list the entire plant list, would be incredibly cumbersome.
Regarding multi-port emitters -- when used in an Area for Drip Emitters, you can see that the emitter assignment is for individual emitters, not for entire multi-port units. So the total number of emitters would then need to be divided by 6 by the contractor to determine the approximate number of units to install.
The short answer for the simplest solution -- we absolutely have plans to allow more than one Drip Emitter Area in a project. This is pending very soon, and I think this will address the crux of your issues.
But still, we'd love to see an example plan of how you are used to doing drip plans. I would imagine it has the entire plant list on it, with a column for the number of emitters necessary. If so, this is also something we have been considering supporting -- that if the user has a Planting User Field configured as number of emitters, then we could allow the drip emitter assignment to access that plant list, and assume that the irrigation plan will also have the entire plant list on it somewhere.
--J
Jermiah,
Thank you for the quick response! It makes sense that is in place for conceptual development. I can imagine that it is difficult to have to accommodate the design methods that vary drastically. For our region, water resources are critical, and the plant palette we have to select from is enormous and varied so it makes most sense for us to specify as emitters on a plant by plant basis as you suggested. In the short term, the multiple drip area would allow us to differentiate, but the best solution would be for us to be able to access the plant list. I am attaching a screenshot of a typical emitter schedule that we produce.
Thanks,
Andre
PS I have looked at your forums A LOT, and you guys are always super helpful! You all are a good group of people.
Andre,
Thanks for sharing that.
Yeah, that was pretty much our assumption, that generating something like that would be necessary. We could piggy-back off of the Plant Schedule, so it could certainly be generated quickly and accurately, it just would require a large amount of space on the sheet.
The multiple Drip Emitter Areas should be available in the next month or two. But being able to assign emitters by plant will require much more engineering, but is definitely on our radar.
--J
Was just thinking about all this as I was assigning emitters. Not sure if it should continue here or be a new thread.
A thought I had was could it be possible to add fractions to the "Number of" list. This would allow for using a multiport to water multiple plants.
Ex. Bowsmith ML200 has 6 ports so offer a 1/6, 2/6, 3/6 . . . option. The legend would of course then have to do the math to provide an accurate count. Of course this would only work if all plants were using the same precip rate emitter and the designer would have to determine lowest common GPH and specify additional outlets for higher water requirements plants.
There's probably no way to get a perfect system so it might be all for not.
In either case it's still an amazing piece of software and it would be difficult to work at an office that doesn't have it.
cmunson1,
This capability is something we have discussed in the past, and it is definitely a valid thought. However, each time we think about how it could be done, we end at the same result: We are simply unable to create a scenario where a multi-port emitter “knows” which emitter to assign to which shrub.
Simply placing the emitters individually and making a note with instructions for the contractor outweighs the sheer volume of code it would take to accomplish those calculations.
The additional thought of what the contractor will actually do vs. what the designer says on the plan also weighs on our minds. Past the design phase, what the contractor does in the field is often out of the designer’s control, so if you choose to use the multi-port emitter, the system will fill every spot with the emitter size you select so it can handle the worst- case scenario.
I hope this explanation helps ease your mind so you can come up with the next great feature we can implement!
What we do is add custom container sizes 5-gal Tropical, 15-gal Desert, 1-Gal Accent, Etc. and then you can control how many emitters and what size they each get based on size and description. our job might have 9-12 shrub container sizes if it is something that requires extreme irrigation control.
Just a thought.
Bob
Bob,
Thanks.
That's the same work around I thought of also. Glad to hear others are using it with success.
-Clay
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